Metal gear solid

[SolidSnake76]

can anyone figure out whats raiden's origin?

[kester-]

solidus says it in mgs2:sol, while raiden is captured.....i gotta play that again

[SolidSnake76]

not biologically. if you played MGS3, i explain.

[SSJKarma]

honestly i think the story behind MGS2:SOL is just bullpoop, it started well but ended pretty stupidly. raiden shouldn't have been there. i liked snake better he kinda had a better view of the field then raiden could ever have, even in outer heaven has snake had a better view of the battlefield. raiden was just a normal soldier trying to love his job which is something snake didn't have in common.

never played the 3 up to now and i can't wait for it to come by the computer industries i'll be waiting for it impatiently.
but i just hope the story is better setted up. and i really hope snake as a great part in it. cause i just hate raiden !

[alamgir]

Quote[/b] ]As effeminate and vaguely annoying as the whole world may find Raiden to
be, his place as a character in the MGS saga is far more critical than
first glance reveals.

Raiden enters the story as an altogether 'green' operative, trained
entirely in virtual reality simulation and hopelessly inexperienced in
real-life situations. The questions raised by his skills are deeply
troubling, as even he isn't completely confident that he has had genuine
'training.' Faced with 'war as a video game,' he is constantly
attempting to draw the line between what is 'combat training' and what
might just be electronic brainwashing.

As technology progresses, the ability to 'program' soldiers rather than
'teach' them becomes more and more viable. The dilemma raised is that,
unlike hands-on training, virtual 'programming' can alter skills along
with a person's entire mindset. More than teaching them how to handle a
gun, it can create entirely different situations for their mind, teaching
them to abandon fear and compassion on the battlefield, potentially
warping their humanity beyond repair. Again, where is the line between
training and brainwashing? Wherever it may be drawn, technology
continues to blur it with its advancements.

Raiden spents most of the story as we see it as a sort of blank slate;
'programmed' but not experienced, he adds a sort of 'tabula rasa'
characteristic to the MGS story that does not appear anywhere else. This
apparent lack of depth, whether or not we like to admit, makes him
frighteningly relateable to the player; he is HIMSELF a 'player' in a
'video game' as he sees it, and he has nothing of 'real life' to offer to
his situation.

While at this point in the mythos, Solid Snake is a certifiable badass,
Raiden is the blank character that we can still find ourselves in the
shoes of. To play as Snake at this point would disintegrate the story;
MGS is first and foremost an interactive experience. Snake would be less
'playing' and more 'suggesting,' as the force of his character and
decisions would overwhelm the player, leaving him less a participant and
more a spectator. Raiden's sheer lack of personality, though somewhat
pathetic, helps define the gameplay and experience. As a player we
control Raiden and we are Raiden, unraveling his situation despite our
own weaknesses.

Now, despite this character setup, Raiden's actual identity carries
importance. Raiden was, in the mid-eighties, a child soldier fighting
under Solidus' command in the infamously vague 'civil war.' Somehow
after the war's conclusion, Raiden found himself alone, making a life for
himself in America. Despite the atrocities he faced and learned to
accept in his childhood, he made the choice to repress his life up to
that point, and try to live a 'normal' life of his own.

Raiden was always followed closely by the Patriots. They likely spotted
him by extension from Solidus during the war, and monitored him from that
point. His efforts to live a simple (but empty) life were ended shortly
after the incident at Shadow Moses. The Patriots recruited him to be an
operative in the vein of the now-defunct FOXHOUND. Raiden, opting to
follow the opportunity, underwent his extensive 'training' for the months
(perhaps years) to follow.

Trained in VR, Raiden did not end up thinking much of the impersonal
nature of his career; he recieved orders by network and radio, equipment
and materials by delivery and middlemen. His CO was never more than a
voice, but after his length in simulacrum, he saw nothing to it.
'Officially' an operative of FOXHOUND, Raiden was finally deployed in
2009 to deal with the crisis at the Big Shell. His mission was to
neutralize the 'Sons of Liberty' and recover a number of hostages from
the facility, including the American President.

Again, Raiden's existence is an archetype crafted out of the various
aspects of growing military technology. He is without identity, without
urgency or human distinctions such as fear or devotion. He is simply
carrying out his task, as blandly and efficiently as possible. For the
majority of his story, he does as told and has as few opinions as
possible.

While Metal Gear itself is touted as an overglorified 'missing link'
between the power of long-range artillery and the mobility of human
infantry, Raiden is an embodiment of a 'missing link' himself; the hybrid
of human intellect and mechanical precision. He is a human, programmed
as if a machine. Thought pleasant-tempered and blonde, he's in reality
one of those horrific Orwellian/THX1138/Equilibrium sort of robot-men at
heart.

Raiden is granted character once he confronts Solidus and his old
identity is brought to surface. His real combat experience and morbid
childhood breathe a bit of life into his character that was not there
previously, giving him personal motivation to see the ordeal through to
the end, and defeat Solidus.

Raiden's motivation at first is lacking; he simply follows his orders, as
it his little more than his job. Nothing so devoted as 'duty;' it is
simply his job to eliminate Dead Cell and Solidus. Raiden likely clings
so tightly to his orders as they help compensation for his lack of
identity. Feeling that fulfilling his 'duties' will bring him personal
fulfillment is a tiny but effective driving force.

By the end of the story, Raiden has become self-aware. Raiden defeats
Solidus, destroying 'Sons of Liberty' and in effect striking that much of
a blow against his inner demons. He realizes the deceptions he has been
surrounded with, and knows that he cannot define himself through such
shallow means. He leaves the fighting behind to find a life and identity
of his own, accepting his past and now his present.

The most miserable manipulation of all is still the final revelation he
reaches. The entire scenario, from Solidus to Raiden, was arranged and
Orcastrated by the Patriots. The entire incident at Big Shell was
meticulously planned to parallel the events of Shadow Moses. The
combination of VR combat training, and this real-and-yet-not experience
were the Patriots' "S3" plan.

S3 was the concept of a hybrid of both virtual and real experiences that,
properly orcastrated, could turn any Soldier into the hardened hero that
Solid Snake had become. The only thing that kept the entire scenario
from being fulfilled, and Raiden becoming a battle-hardened,
now-experienced national hero akin to Solid Snake... was the appearance
of the real Solid Snake.

Here's a gamefaqs take on raiden's character.

And Karma MGS 3's story line is brilliant. Set at the time of the Cold War you play as Naked Snake aka Big Boss, the original warrior all the way through. So i'm sure you'd be pleased to know that there's no Raiden although you just might see someone a bit similar.

[SSJKarma]

i'm a big fan of theseries, i also have the first and second game on my computer thought the second game i rather want the MSX one not the nintendo version. so i will probably make sure to see snake eater... and maybe the other gameboy versions as well versions as well !

thanks for mentionning raiden isn't there as well, but fact is, i don't like big boss either. i know its all about him and have always been ever since game 1, i think they should have stayed with solid snake. but i'll see for myself if it is worth it or not the day i will play it and even if it takes quite a while before i can play it i'll just make sure to play it one day or another !

thanks for mentionning it anyway !

[alamgir]

Quote[/b] (SSJKarma @ Nov. 30 2005,9:35)]i'm a big fan of theseries, i also have the first and second game on my computer thought the second game i rather want the MSX one not the nintendo version. so i will probably make sure to see snake eater... and maybe the other gameboy versions as well versions as well !

thanks for mentionning raiden isn't there as well, but fact is, i don't like big boss either. i know its all about him and have always been ever since game 1, i think they should have stayed with solid snake. but i'll see for myself if it is worth it or not the day i will play it and even if it takes quite a while before i can play it i'll just make sure to play it one day or another !

thanks for mentionning it anyway !
No problem lol.

But trust me, if you didn't like Big Boss before then you'll like him in MGS 3. You probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the two judging on how similarily Big Boss acts to Snake. Ever wondered why Big Boss becomes bad? Ever wondered why Big Boss got his famed title and legendary status? Well check MGS 3 out because that's one game you have to play.

[Jakelynch]

Spoiler Alert! http://bbs.projectx.cyberfuturism.com/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

























Raiden comes from Volgins *** lover. Most looks and everything. Big Boss becomes bad as he realizes he was being used. He found love on the battlefield and lost it, for she was a spy. He gets his title from killing his mentor and Big Boss. It is rumored she and The Sorrow had a son, hence, Ocelots orgin. That's a summary of what I learned from the game. Can't wait for MGS4. Seems Solid has teh Foxdie. 0.o

[DA_VIPA]

Quote[/b] (SSJKarma @ Nov. 30 2005,7:52)]cause i just hate raiden
im with you on that one brother


and jake.. after looking at ocelot.. i really can not tell who is the good guy or the bad guy. o yeah ur right about volgins male lover the similarities is uncanning?
in mgs2 we now know that raiden is working for the patriots
aided by solid snake.
after all the colenol was an a.i.. jacks girlfriend rose is working for the patriots.. the whole big shell incident was orchestrated by the patriots..as ocelot put quite nicely.
i hope it becomes a lot more clear when mgs4 is released.

alamgir:very nicely put. the boss was never a traitor! her duty was to die at the hands of snake so she stops nuclear war from starting.
and its happened to big boss also..

heres an interesting theory the sorrow says: 'you will die at the hands of your own sons' snake.. liquid?
snake liquid and SOLIDUS are not children of big boss.. they are exact replica's..

[SolidSnake76]

damn you, i was about to do that.

first, lets calculate his age.

First, we don't know much about Snake, except the fact that he's in his 30s in the game. (Oh great! He could be anywhere between 30 and 39!)...But we do know that Snake has a twin brother, and that can come in very handy with dates...

In the game and in information about Snake, we find out that he was born in the 1970s, but that's only a help to us if we know what year the game takes place in...

...No problem. There are a few clues in the game as to when it takes place. For example, when Liquid Snake has just jumped into the ****pit of Metal Gear Rex and is starting it up, he shouts "Now I'll show you the power of the weapon that will lead us in the 21st century". That tells us that the game takes place around the year 2000.
Also, when Solid Snake is talking to Kenneth Baker, he says "But I thought the nuclear age ended with the turn of the millennium". That means the game takes place in 2000 or over.

Previous events can also come in handy. Snake was involved in the Gulf War, which took place in 1991. We don't know much about him then, but we do know (after listening to the Briefing) that his twin brother, Liquid Snake was in his late teens.


Also, in 1995, Snake went to Outer Heaven. But that doesn't tell us much, seeing as we don't know how old he was then.
But in 1999, Snake went to Zanzibar, which confirms that the game takes place in the 21st century like we worked out earlier...
Here's another clue: Snake went back to Outer Heaven, renamed Galuade 7 years after he first went there. If that was in 1995, 7 years later must have been 2002. But is that before or after Shadow Moses?

OK, so what year does the terrorist attack at Shadow Moses take place? We need to know...Well, when Snake's in the cell after Ocelot's torture, talking to Campbell and Naomi on the codec, he starts talking about his friends and family and mentions Zanzibar - Campbell says "It happened in Zanzibar 6 years ago". Brilliant! Now that we know that, we can work out the year that the game is set in. If you add 6 to 1999, you get 2005. Bingo! The year is 2005 during MGS at Shadow Moses Island!

Now, how old is Solid Snake? Bearing all these facts in mind, we can work out his age...

He must have been born between 1970 and 1979
In 1991 he was in his late teens
The Zanzibar Riot happened in 1999, 6 years before Shadow Moses
He is in his 30s in the game (at Shadow Moses)
If he was born in 1970 or 1971, during the Gulf War he would have been in his early 20s, but we know that he was a teenager, so that can't be right.

If he was born between 1976 or 1979, he would be in his 20s in the game (at Shadow Moses)...

So, he must have been born between 1972 and 1975. This means that during Shadow Moses he is 30-33 in age.

now lets look at this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/SolidSnake76/MGS4char.jpg

i'm questioning big boss existance in that picture though, he would have to be well over 80 or 90. i'll edit this later.

[DA_VIPA]

you disappoint me young snake.. you should know your own birthday..
well luckily im here
snake,liquid and solidus were born in 1972

1991-the gulf war snake and liquid were still in their late teens whereas solidus was growing at a much faster rate. they were all 19.

1995-OUTERHEAVEN crisis- colonel cataffy i mean big boss tricks snake and this is their 1st encounter.. snake was 23

1999- zanzibar riot-snake once again destroys a more powerful metal gear and a now cowardly big boss..snake is 27

2002-this is 7 years after outer heaven..snake is 30.

2005-this is 6 years after zanzibar..snake is now33

2007-snake infiltrates the tanker is framed and presumed dead(we all knowbetter) snake is 35

2009-snake infiltrates big shell disguising himself as iroqois pliskin. snake is 37

[SolidSnake76]

whatever, this game got alot to unlock.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bb/The_Patriots.jpg

look at the bottom far left.

http://mgs.gry-online.pl/mgs1/postacie/jimhouseman1.jpg

does he look familar?

finding out who the patriots are is gonna be a bigger challenge too, why wont MGS4 just come out now?

[DA_VIPA]

top right hand guy.. hmm reminds me ocelot..
and yeah that picture is the old secretary of defence.. forget his name..hmm if you remember correctly there is a picture of him in the area in which you fight psycho mantis..i think iv mentioned that to you before snake.

[Jakelynch]

Kojima said it's announced in 2006, so cross your fingers and maybe it'll be a launch title. Till then, we play MGS3:Substinence. I know I didn't spell it right, but oh well.

Side note: Check it out! It's Miller! Looks like Liquid may be back then.

[DA_VIPA]

hehe liquid never died..

ocelot was liquid snakes right hand man..
and now liquid is ocelots right hand.. i love the irony.

[Jakelynch]

Irony is awesome. And didn't the Darpa Cheif die?

[DA_VIPA]

yeah.. before liquid got his codes.. i felt like such an idiot when i activated the metal gear..liquid is a sly basterd..i was wondering why miller was so god damn excited when i was about to put the final key in..and then it all made sense lmao..

[Jakelynch]

lol. Wait, do I see Grey Fox in there? 0.o Look at the bottom, second one. Vaugely resembles Grey Fox. And a soilder, lol.

[SolidSnake76]

Quote[/b] (Jakelynch @ Nov. 30 2005,2:20)]Irony is awesome. And didn't the Darpa Cheif die?
dont you mean signit?

[DA_VIPA]

thats a tricky one..

[DA_VIPA]

mmmm.. sigint i thought he was hillarious.

[Jakelynch]

Yes, it is. Did you do the minigame and call him? XD Crazy. DARPA is the company.....he is an expert. I have no idea.

[DA_VIPA]

the story has so many untied ends.. im going to sleep id like to see what people come out with.. so that i may correct them lol

[Jakelynch]

Ocaton is doing good, as seen in the trailer. lol, and whatever happened to Meryl? And which ending was canon?! O.O

[SolidSnake76]

i still cant put together what could be in MGS4.

all i know is that its in the mid-est, they finally created real bi-pedal tanks and snake and otacon are at in once again.

just who is vamp gonna work with? with or against the patriots? and what does big boss has planned?

[Jakelynch]

They need to create a REAL Metal Gear. Like, an actual killing machine that can't be stopped by any means. Had 3 tries at it.

I think against them. He got screwed over, lol. BB has something big that involves betraying. Everyone can kinda figure that.

[SolidSnake76]

ok, i found this little site and did some studying.

http://www.ugo.com/channel....ult.asp (http://www.ugo.com/channels/games/features/metalgearhistory/default.asp)

it really helps out with alot we couldnt figure out from the other two minus MGS3, but raiden's origin. his parents, could he hold a biological relation to eva?

[Jakelynch]

Wow, nice. I doubt that. Eva would have taken care of him when she was infliltrating then. She wouldn't have BB do that to him. Then again, maybe she didn't care. Who knows?

[~Mastermax~]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bb/The_Patriots.jpg
i figured out another one of them, the fourth one from the left on the bottom is Geraldo Rivera

http://cache.eonline.com/On/Holly/Shows/Geraldo/Images/intro.rivera.geraldo.jpg

[Jakelynch]

Amen! Lord Jesus, help us reveal........DOOR NUMBER 6! Looks a little like Nemesis from RE3. Looks like brain. 0.o

[-Cypher-]

Liquid is the best,.

[SolidSnake76]

Quote[/b] (-Cypher- @ Nov. 30 2005,4:20)]Liquid is the best,.
ok......


and you just dont care do you.....

[Jakelynch]

I doubt he does. Did you see in the trailer that Solid was still smoking?! XD He might have cancer, foxdie, troutness........Who knows? It's probably Foxdie, knowing Kojima.

[-Cypher-]

Solid is a piece of F$%#*en S%&*. Him and his old self.

[Jakelynch]

Well, he pwnz0red Liquid. Explain that. 0.o

[SolidSnake76]

Quote[/b] (-Cypher- @ Nov. 30 2005,4:24)]Solid is a piece of F$%#*en S%&*. Him and his old self.
idiot, we're trying to connect the dots, not play fliping favorites.

either start thinking or shut up.

[~Mastermax~]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bb/The_Patriots.jpg
i can't tell if the bottom right is either chuck norris
http://www.wasteoftechnology.com/articles/norrisshirtless.jpg
or bob ross
http://www.artloversworkshop.com/images/Bob%20Ross%20at%20His%20Easel%20%20In%20Color.jpg

or rasputin
http://ja.wikipedia.org/upload/7/70/Rasputin.png

[-Cypher-]

Quote[/b] (SolidSnake76 @ Nov. 30 2005,9:37)]Quote[/b] (-Cypher- @ Nov. 30 2005,4:24)]Solid is a piece of F$%#*en S%&*. Him and his old self.
idiot, we're trying to connect the dots, not play fliping favorites.

either start thinking or shut up.
Make me .

[SolidSnake76]

you know, you kids need to stop sniffing the glue and stop playing that stupid pass out game. killing your brain cells is not funny.

[alamgir]

Hang on, if Big Boss is dead then he can't feature in MGS 4 can he? Wasn't it Solid Snake who killed him?

[SSJKarma]

ALAMGIR, the 3rd game is about big boss and is happenning even before snake was even in fox-hounds !

the fourth could be a true scene thought cause after allt hey still had big boss dna and clonig at an accelerated rate is still possible for what i know and that is a game don't forget that so anything is possible.

meryl silverburg ? cool i think if a woman was made for snake it truly would be meryl. and i like otacon as well. so if the 4th is a sequel to shadow moses then i am clearly gonna play that one out !

[alamgir]

Quote[/b] ]ALAMGIR, the 3rd game is about big boss and is happenning even before snake was even in fox-hounds !

Yeah I know, what made you think I thought otherwise?

And yeah I agree with your point on Meryl. She was made for Snake, she practically got sniped in her joints and tortured because of him so it wouldn't be very nice to have Snake get rid of her.

[SolidSnake76]

karma, its gonna pick up from MGS2, when snake and otacon were talking at the end about the patriots.

and in metal gear 2, snake left big boss in a firey inferno in zanzibar, since the fight was reenacted from outer heaven. but he ensured big boss is dead.

in MGS1, snake yelled at cambell to just give them big boss's remains, but naomi told snake a story why they couldn't. that might of been a cover to what they did with his body. might of been something similar to what they did to yeager.

[Jakelynch]

If Kojima gives us a Mech-Big Boss, it'd be either totally ***, or totally awesome. He could be a breathing Metal Gear. 0.o

[~Mastermax~]

Quote[/b] (Jakelynch @ Dec. 01 2005,8:09)]If Kojima gives us a Mech-Big Boss, it'd be either totally ***, or totally awesome. He could be a breathing Metal Gear. 0.o
or why not bring back the Gurlugon as a boss?

[Jakelynch]

That too. The 3 snakes that were cloned of BB could meet each other. 0.o Liquid would get a body of mechanical engineering and Ocelot would escape in some sissy way. The idea is farfetched, but oh well.

[DA_VIPA]

Quote[/b] (SolidSnake76 @ Dec. 01 2005,10:58)]and in metal gear 2, snake left big boss in a firey inferno in zanzibar, since the fight was reenacted from outer heaven. but he ensured big boss is dead.
i wouldnt count on that..
if big boss can come back from outer heaven.. i wouldnt count on him dying in zanzibar.
big boss is the man.. the one thats been able to beat the boss..and even that seems fishy.

the boss's mission was to die.. did she let snake kill her? or did snake win fairly?

[alamgir]

Hmm she wasn't as hard to beat as I thought she'd be even with a time limit on her side. Doubt that has anything to do with the plot though and i'm sure she gave everything in her final fight with Snake.

[SSJKarma]

as mentionned in MGS big boss as died in zanzibar he is dead ans snake make sure of it that time around.
but as SS76 mentionned they still have the remains and still don't want to give them to anybody so clearly somethign can be done with that.

alamgir, i might have misunderstood your others posts... so that answer i had given about it might be wrong.

i liked MGS for its story line, i disliked MGS2 for its story line. metal gear being developped by allthe governements ? listen up if that was the case, it truly wouldn't be any usefull for snake and otacon to have created that anti-metal gear organization they did. so the story truly had a story hole here ! not to mention ocelot taking rex by killing 12 soldiers in front of a whole 100 soldiers armed and looking at the whole thing. it was cool looking but truly unrealistick. that right arm thing was also ***, liquid in an arm and be able to talk. sorry i didn't bought that.

raiden getting in... that was pretty stupid the whole being controlled by a computer was cool thought never thought of that one and it was cool. but the story going with it was just stupid. as for snake... didn't you guys knew why he took SNAKE PLISKEN as name when he met raiden ? SNAKE PLISKEN (NEW YORK 1997 or the sequel LOS ANGELES 2013 the character was named that way)

i liked many things in MGS2... but so many things just doesn't cut it so many story holes that probably will not be solved in MGS4 !

[DA_VIPA]

yeah it seems unrealistic with liquid becoming alive withing the arm of ocelot but it fits in with the story perfectly. as the sorrow is the father of ocelot. the sorrow had special powers that allows him to have contact with the dead.

o and karma many of the untied ends from mgs2 will not be solved in mgs4 as kojima has already said there WILL be an mgs5 which i think will be the final chapter in the game.

snake never finished off big boss as liquid was after his remains in shadow moses.
he wanted big boss's remains as it would stop the aging effect of being a clone.
solidus snake was president of the u.s at the time and he has access to big boss's remains but he is the oldest looking of all the snake clones meaning even he can not get big boss's remains as he doesnt have remains because he is still alive an mechanically managing.

[Kill_dem_all]

snake is an old guy now dat what sucks http://bbs.projectx.cyberfuturism.com/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

but i don't think rose was working for the patriets...dat was some kind of fake rose http://bbs.projectx.cyberfuturism.com/non-cgi/emoticons/plain.gif

but bigboss just made snake to take his spot on the patriots list

[DA_VIPA]

its sad but i think i can get used to a bad ass grandpa snake..


kill: very good point, throughout the whole mission rose is supporting you and such until the ai malfunctioned.. so throughout the whole game was it the a.i? or was it genuine because at the end she meets up with him and he knows she was working for the patriots so that they could keep him under control.. that one confused me for a second.

[Jakelynch]

Grandpa Snake is gonna be so cool. Being held up by an old man.

[blockattack]

....Thats sad, he's already a drunk and a chain smoker, he wont last much longer...

[SSJKarma]

think twice guys, you think its being old to be in its mid 30ies ?
heck my father would still be able to kick many of your asses and he is about 55.
heck he's even the strongest at his job ! even younger people can't rival him yet.
so think twice, being in his mid 30ies doesn't mean he's old and can't do the job, it only means he got lots of experience thus becoming perfect for the job !
the governements didn't set the ceiling to 65 years for nothing. its because up to that age you can still do quite a lot of things !

look at MGS TWIN SNAKE and look at what he can do for a mid 30. i think he's quite capable up to now for a supposed old dude !

[alamgir]

Sean Conery's character kicked ass in The Rock, white haired Snake should be no different.

[DA_VIPA]

all i can say is that mgs4=mega ownage.