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Old 09-13-2007, 07:21 AM   #26
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

Yea, we should give wolverine many projectile moves, make cyc invincible, and increase the speed on sents rocket punch. Or maybe you should stop crying and face the facts of what your doing - trying to handicap people with more skills that you in the hope of actually winning a game. KTyBye
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Old 09-14-2007, 04:55 PM   #27
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

Woah, I thought I’d finish this reply before I’d go to sleep, but apologies if what I have written appear to be non-coherent or otherwise illogical, but bear with me, re-read it a few times and it’ll all make sense.. maybe?

Firstly, I must regretfully go back on the comment I made about ryu being a beginner character, what I meant to have said that Ryu is the most suitable character for beginners to use, because he is the easiest to use. That is not to say that experts do not use him; on the contrary when people would want to play their ‘best’, because he is the easiest to use. Therefore in a way that ryu is still considered the easiest to use reinforces my point that he should be slightly above par above anyone else to begin with, because he is the character that helps beginners get into the game; with ken and akuma, you have to get 30/40 wins anyway, so by then, it is arguable that do they need all the perks if they have managed to maintain so many wins. Needless to say it is still a comparatively small amount compared to that on the top scores, but likewise the later characters shouldn’t be as strong as to make the other characters being so weak and underused by others.

Also, I urge you to reread my post; I never said that the modern players are unable to adapt to the change in the sfo, I’m saying the players themselves cannot adapt to the original game to begin with. Even with or without vindicator, the players should be able to adapt to the gameplay, and not have to require so many moves as to enable them to win. If anything, it would not be hard for them to adapt to the new era of characters, because they are all so easily accessible and used, taking the skill that was once required to be gone. However, pre vindicated era, it shows a higher knowledge of the character because the players have adapted to the gameplay and managed to defeat the so called ‘amazing’ ryu using a more limited set of moves, rather than a set of moves that requires them to use any move in any situation and still come out on top because frankly, the characters have the abilities and the arsenal to deal with just about anything and come out without too much hassle.

But there you are, the least used characters that require an update are, as you say, chun-li and iron man, and you dislike the fact that iron man is so rarely used and people bitching about the so called problems that it raises. However, should the vinidicated charactersare slightly ‘weaker’ so to speak, then would you not think that more people would use iron man and chun li because they stand more of a chance against them? It would defeat the rather laborious process of re-updating and improving all the characters because there simply would not be that problem if all the characters are on par with each other!! t doesn’t matter if ryu is slightly better than th others, people have learned to overcome it, because it is only one character! But as the vindicated characters increase, those that are not vindicated are used less and less; the characters you spent countless sleepless nights over will get used less and less because of how the shotos are so strong! It is this inevitability which in result makes the whole thing preposterous; on one hand, there is the countless improvements on the old characters to ‘make them on par with ryu’ (i.e. eventually no weakness characters), but you also have the new characters that you ‘spent ages making but noone uses’, because of the updates on the old characters means they will never get to that stage of ‘character development’, and are never used because the old characters will always be stronger if the old characters are always going to be endlessly updated, at the moment the so called vindicated characters; these two statements are directly related!

You have yet to see a character rise to the level of ryu, but people’s skill have enabled them to rise to the level of that of ryu players and even overpower the ryu users, because ryu has become used so many times that players have so many chances to fight and defeat them. It is the person’s skill that matters with the non-vindicated characters in a way, because they have a limited set of moves that they must utilise at the right time if they want to win. I personally believe nowadays ryu players are one of the most predictable players around, and that if used correctly Cyclops, juggernaut and sentinel are ‘better’ than ryu, defence, speed, and damage wise, they can be on par providing the skill level is the same, pre vindication. But now, due to the vindication, ken, ryu and akuma are in a league of their own, so they are being segregated from the rest of the characters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] ] My only solution? If you can't beat them, join them. Use a Shoto to beat a Shoto.

Since a typical Shoto-vs-Shoto fight involves heavy hadokening and furious and quick levelling up rather than any particular hand-to-hand combat, the emphasis would then shift accordingly towards movement, timing and anticipation, which is still a fair test of skills.
That’s the thing, it is stupid that all of us are forced or made to use shotos because without them we wouldn’t stand a chance; your post clearly reflects the point I’ve been trying to make in my topic, the shotos are shown to have no weaknesses that people immediately flock to them, leaving the others unused, and in result we HAVE to join them, which isn’t how a fighting game should work; where we know if we don’t use certain character, we are almost certain to lose because there is such a great difference in the character levels and the number of moves each of them have got.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] ] But back to my main point,we can't really give a generlised overview on strengths and weakness's until the whole process is completed- it's like reviewing a book you've only half read
That’s the thing we can never judge then can we, for the whole process can never be completed, because it is a never ending cycle, something we have discussed before, it is not a half read book, it is judging the characters are any point on the edge of a circle and hoping to see the end of it.

Thank you very much. Once again, sorry for any offence caused.
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Old 09-14-2007, 07:39 PM   #28
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] (TMyApp @ Sep. 12 2007,22:33)]Nyah!: hmm ... i'm not quite sure if i agree with the view of Ryu being a "beginner character" ... most "seasoned" players i know always picked Ryu if they wanted to "play their best" ... (but for some reason, none of them are around in this thread to back me up )
I tend to think a few of us still stick to cyclops and sentinel

The last time Ive relied on RYU.. """phew..""" Um.. dunno.. 04??
Seasoned vets .. viva la ×-men.. 0.o..

But I do see where you come from..
And for YEARS... Ryu was the man.. I back you ..
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Old 09-14-2007, 07:46 PM   #29
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] (blockattack @ Sep. 14 2007,20:39)]
Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] (TMyApp @ Sep. 12 2007,22:33)]Nyah!: hmm ... i'm not quite sure if i agree with the view of Ryu being a "beginner character" ... most "seasoned" players i know always picked Ryu if they wanted to "play their best" ... (but for some reason, none of them are around in this thread to back me up )
I tend to think a few of us still stick to cyclops and sentinel

The last time Ive relied on RYU.. """phew..""" Um.. dunno.. 04??
Seasoned vets .. viva la ×-men.. 0.o..

But I do see where you come from..
And for YEARS... Ryu was the man.. I back you ..
Does Juggernaut count?

Ah yes ... Ryu is always the most "reliable" ... But i only use him ... When i "know" I have to...


Other than that , I use ryu in the "uber mentor i'm your trainer because i'm ryu and i'm better than you" sense .
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Old 09-14-2007, 07:56 PM   #30
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

i just use ryu against good akumas 4 every1 else my ken can take out any1
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Old 09-14-2007, 08:05 PM   #31
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

yeah the most reliable characters for me now are cyclops wolvie and sentinel - non vindicated...- I don't much rely on ryu like I used to in 05 and early 06 ..but I do agree that ryu was the man back then and there wasn't much to complain about him except his lack of speacials...now from that started the vindicator which brang tons of new speacials and all but a lot of old users would disagree with that new update...I don't know why me and a lot of old people don't like vindicator maybe it's because shotos are over powered maybe it's because the new speacials glitches a lot...I don't know but I know where this is going and it won't go backward...so I understood that if you don't like it quit and if you do then good for you I don't but I won't quit just cause of that..i'll just play less and play XvsSF mode from time to time that's all...


I do hope SFO keep going for a long time...but a lot of us won't grow with it..That is a fact !
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Old 09-15-2007, 10:00 PM   #32
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

i agree with tmyapp in everyway, ryu ken and akuma are pretty much well-powered now and dont need to have any moves taken away or tweaked. Hail vindicator.
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Old 09-19-2007, 12:05 PM   #33
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] ((EA)Severus @ Sep. 16 2007,04:00)]i agree with tmyapp in everyway, ryu ken and akuma are pretty much well-powered now and dont need to have any moves taken away or tweaked. Hail vindicator.
ryu, ken and akuma are, but you're neglecting the point that all the other characters are virtually useless against them.

Bumped, as i am eager for TMyApp to answer
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Old 09-19-2007, 12:09 PM   #34
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

i use a combo of a shoto and a dwx. but never two of either... for example sakua&sent akuma&spidey ryu and cyc it balances out very nicely
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Old 09-19-2007, 08:11 PM   #35
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

yes thats true. but sakura has a great advantage over most characters. her hadukens and super haduken. cause first she can shoot up. and ryu can not. and akuma cant get through most of sakura's moves. sakura may be a shoto wana be but she can kick some butt.
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Old 09-21-2007, 05:36 AM   #36
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] (Nyah! @ Sep. 14 2007,17:55)]
Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] ] But back to my main point,we can't really give a generlised overview on strengths and weakness's until the whole process is completed- it's like reviewing a book you've only half read *
That’s the thing we can never judge then can we, for the whole process can never be completed, because it is a never ending cycle, something we have discussed before, it is not a half read book, it is judging the characters are any point on the edge of a circle and hoping to see the end of it.

Thank you very much. *Once again, sorry for any offence caused.
Well thats not true though is it?

I mean Ryu might be the most amazing thing going but then suddenly Zangief gets added and comepltly alters the whole power standing of a characteR.

It can't be comepltly judged in it's entirety,should it ever happen where throws get implemented would it drastically alter the game yet again?

Yes

I mean Tmyapp isn't continually gonna tweak or add characters so their is an end.

He did say that once all characters have been added and vindicated that would be it

As for when that end is...thats debatable.....

Will he shut it down before it's done?
Will marve| be morons again?
Will Aliens come from mars and start playing SFO aswell bitching about sub-warp factor lag?


As with all things time will tell.
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Old 09-21-2007, 07:53 AM   #37
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

lol did u have to go there with the aliens? also vindicated shin ken isnt all that hard to beat you guys. so what he has 10 moves you can stop all of them easy..... stop complaining and start hadoken spamming
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Old 09-21-2007, 12:03 PM   #38
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] (LegacyofKain @ Sep. 21 2007,11:36)]
Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] (Nyah! @ Sep. 14 2007,17:55)]
Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] ] But back to my main point,we can't really give a generlised overview on strengths and weakness's until the whole process is completed- it's like reviewing a book you've only half read
That’s the thing we can never judge then can we, for the whole process can never be completed, because it is a never ending cycle, something we have discussed before, it is not a half read book, it is judging the characters are any point on the edge of a circle and hoping to see the end of it.

Thank you very much. Once again, sorry for any offence caused.
Well thats not true though is it?

I mean Ryu might be the most amazing thing going but then suddenly Zangief gets added and comepltly alters the whole power standing of a characteR.

It can't be comepltly judged in it's entirety,should it ever happen where throws get implemented would it drastically alter the game yet again?

Yes

I mean Tmyapp isn't continually gonna tweak or add characters so their is an end.

He did say that once all characters have been added and vindicated that would be it

As for when that end is...thats debatable.....

Will he shut it down before it's done?
Will marve| be morons again?
Will Aliens come from mars and start playing SFO aswell bitching about sub-warp factor lag?


As with all things time will tell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] (TMyApp @ Sep. 13 2007,03:33)]

and as for the "never ending quest of tweaking the characters" ?? yeah ... we had that one since day one as well ... (but i think few remember Ryu 0.1a ... and the immense number of times he was "tweaked" ... and of course the same can be said about every other XvsSF character in SFO)


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