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Old 02-22-2011, 06:01 PM   #1
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Default Balancing Mega Brain Storming

Basically i'm going to just throw in ideas that were mentionned by others, and some i have thought about and passes them as balancing the characters in order for them all to have decent chances against whats coming their ways.

This is a big brainstorming thread, with luck this thread will be better then having 13 threads which is 1 for each chars... by the way this isn'T a thread for those wanting totally new awesome moves that totally are super awesome, we're here to address the balancing issues. there will be new moves asked here, but they shouldn'T be hard to implement and shouldn't give us a headaches in order to know why we'd need to balance them out as well...


my take on the chars...
IRONMAN
Smart Bombs : With ironman lack of true close range moves, he's easily stuck against close range fighters like chunli or ryu or even wolverine for that matter. smart bombs would definitely makes this a bit less the case, because smart bombs are fast and aren't going the whole distance.

Aside from that, i really dont know how to balance him out... seriously whatever we can think of is probably not good enough to make him playable.

WOLVERINE
Directionnal Drill Claw : He so needs this, just because he has only Tornado claw as an anti-air move and thats not really that great. not to mention he has nothing to start air combos and thus wolverine gets easily defeated by jumping opponents. being able to do drill claw in the air and deciding which ways he goes would definitely make him more balanced against everybody. this would definitely make him a better fighter.

i dont think wolverine needs anything else then that, like ironman, whatever we can think of won't affect him that much, directionnal drill claw would make him more versatile and thus more of a fighter.

KEN
Shin RyuKen : This needs a bit more range, right now it is oftenly miss used because it has next to no range at all, the opponent has to be above you to be hit, if he's in front the opponent usually have time to go away. a bit more range on the side would enable him to catch more people and that move would then be more usable.

thats all i can say, i think ken is like ryu, well balanced, pretty much like akuma too. so i dont know about giving him more stuff... balancing the shotos is quite already done to me.

RYU
Shin ShoRyuKen : Just like ken shinryuken, this move could benefit from a bit more range, because its a great move, but it usually never hit any opponent and thus why people dont do it.

Shinku Hadouken : it is instantly making it across the room, making this the fastest super ever done. basically ryu does this and because it comes out before the animation is even started, the super beam is already on you giving you next to 0 second to react to it. the only thing i'd want would be for it to come out say 2 frames later then it does now, this would give at least a bit of margin to opponents.

Aside from these two, i think shotos are quite well balanced.

AKUMA
I really dont have anything in mind, so go ahead give out ideas on him...

SAKURA
I have no idea where to start with her, i think shes ok and well balanced, but im not a big player with her... so i dont know... go ahead like akuma give out your ideas. and remember new moves aren'T balancing ideas, they are content ideas.

CHUNLI
Lightning Kick : Remove pass thru from that... seriously, i've seen people do this just to avoid projectiles, its really not supposed to be used for that.

Her 3x jump is a problem to me, but many said it was her playstyle and i do agree... so i'd say remove the pass thru of everymove she does... she can already easily go to the opponent via her 3x jump, so why giving her others way to get there to begin with. to be honest i'm stuck here with her... shes abusive, too much and i dont know how to tone her down. so if anybody got ideas...

BISON
Knee Press : That thing needs to slow down a bit, its way too fast right now and it enables him to go thru the screen at great speed, speed that he shouldn'T be having to begin with. he can also teleport, so why not get his speed down and let the teleport do its job instead !

Shin Psycho Crusher : That one needs to be fixed, it gets people even if they are high up in the air. and its range above and under akuma are way too big. it needs it range tone down.

Psycho Field : Like the crush super, this needs to be toned down, right now it has a lot more reach like it reaches a must as wolverine fatal claw yet it is smaller in size, thats shouldn'T be. psycho field is a close range super, not a mid/long range super.

CYCLOPS
Fine by me, i really dont know what else he could need. though i haven't played much of it to really know why hes not played with. so feel free to hint about what he needs, im sure some of you can find something to balance out.

SPIDERMAN
Maximum spider bug : As always this needs to be fixed, really we need to get a team to find what makes it bug actually.

Aside from that i dont know what he could need more.

JUGGERNAUGHT
Armor : Juggernaught needs more armor, seriously like absorb more then even sentinel. hes bigger then anybody else and yet he takes damage like no others, he get hits like mad... what i'd say is that he needs 50% armor, which means he would absorb 50% of every hit he receive, that would act as if he had super armor. that way he can deal much damage during the course of a fight instea dof being just an overgrown punching bag that gets thrown around easily. 50% might be big, but it has to be between 30 and 50% to me to be actually usefull !

SENTINEL
saved my favorite for last...
Sentinel Force : This move needs more speed,because right now sentinel is asking to be freely hit just by sending those in. so just speed them up a bit, i'd say twice their actual speed should be enough. they are way to slow and cannot compete against anything. not to mention they cannot be used if you aren't near the damn screen. so faster speed would actually make them a bit more accurate and usefull.

Sentinel Force : Yes i am making two upgrade to that alone... actually sent force needs better directions then what they do now, right now one goes down thru the floor... seriously is that eve usefull ? no its not unless we can use it in the air which we can't. so make the low one follows the floor, and push the ther two at higher angles. until stronger one can be almost vertical.

Stasis Field (bubble super) : That super is useless right now, it has low reach and as if it wasn'T enought akes a lot of time to come out, and to top it off once the opponent has been hit (because he doesn'T get pushed by the bubble) the opponent is free to take his best shot against us because we're stuck waiting on the bubble to disappear before we can do anything else.

Solution, dont shoot it... it says it its a field, not a projectile, make it look like the original PLASMA STORM instead... just keep it once its formed and i dont know add a more effect to it or whatever, just dont throw it, that way the super doesn'T get far making it effective against close range fighters... and it still protect our faces from death until its over with.




Thats all there is right now in my opinion, th egame isn't so unbalanced either, so we are very close to having finished balancing them all, so why not give a last go and finish them so we can finally go forward with this game. because right now all we're doing is taking a step forward then another step backward. that truly wont help at all !

so go ahead, this mega brainstoriming session is now open for any debate on anything !
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Old 02-22-2011, 06:20 PM   #2
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Default Re: Balancing Mega Brain Storming

Ken:
Leave him alone.

Akuma:
Leave him alone.

Sakura:
Make her level a tad faster.
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Old 02-22-2011, 06:46 PM   #3
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Default Re: Balancing Mega Brain Storming

Nice
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Old 02-22-2011, 07:01 PM   #4
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Default Re: Balancing Mega Brain Storming

AKUMA

i would like for one to say personal base of that video i would like akuma to have a long range special and i would like to see it unvini the one were he throw many hokens at you in a blast froum
i say leave ken as is that what pl love about him he is close range fighter
i want spiderman to move faster cuz i can say for one the lagg be crazy if a new player were to try to use him they would get spam to DEATH! what bout the web throw move i see that not in the list
leave ironman but the smart bombs is ok to me
this is my little input for now
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Old 02-22-2011, 07:14 PM   #5
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Default Re: Balancing Mega Brain Storming

IRONMAN
Smart Bombs :
+ New moves are always fun.

I think ironman is fine close range. He has those repulsion beams and if you do jump+punch, he does some beams that are pretty nice as well.

When you compare him to ryu, the reason why he is hard to play with is obvious - he is WAY too stiff. Wish I knew how to express that better, but for now "STIFF" is the only thing I can say.


Making ironman faster in the latest update was a big plus though! =)


WOLVERINE
Yes, give him a move to make him less anti-air. While we're at it, a projectile move as well so that people aren't tempted to abuse the rd against him. He is pretty playable otherwise.

KEN


1. VIP + vindicated version of him has way too many moves.

Give poor unvind ken some of them. I recommend the flaming dash to overcome his short-ranged attacks.

2.With sakura's bubble not having the vaccum effect, Ken's flame leviathan is being super-abused. It should follow the same route as the bubble.


3. VIP + vindicated: Ken's spinning kick can be chained to make him pretty much untouchable (disregarding RD) because he can stay in the air all night. While chunli desperately needs her triple-jump, Ken can do quite well without this.



RYU

Quote:
Shin ShoRyuKen : Just like ken shinryuken, this move could benefit from a bit more range, because its a great move, but it usually never hit any opponent and thus why people dont do it.


- I have to disagree. It's like an RD when we can pull it off, and pretty much anyone good with ryu can pull it off. The thing with this move is, even when it hits, we can defend mid-way to avoid damage. Maybe disable the block when the move has been executed. Or, if we increase the range, decrease the damage it dishes out. Ryu is powerful enough as he is.

Quote:
Shinku Hadouken : it is instantly making it across the room, making this the fastest super ever done. basically ryu does this and because it comes out before the animation is even started, the super beam is already on you giving you next to 0 second to react to it. the only thing i'd want would be for it to come out say 2 frames later then it does now, this would give at least a bit of margin to opponents.
YES! + I can't count the # of times when I start a long range special 1st and still get countered by this move.

OH: and his high kick does too much damage. Would be nice to reduce this.


AKUMA


Those who know how to use him can abuse him well. With that said, it is hard to think of ways to cripple him without stealing his signature moves: ashura warp, rd, etc. All are amazing on other own: which is why most VIP chars have them.

He is great at chaining moves. With that said, 2 things that could be tweaked are:

1. Vindicated: drop kicks: I'm still trying to figure out how the pros do it, but in a corner, this move can be done multiple times and FAST = lots of damage. Make this slower so people have a chance to defend appropriately or get out of the corner.

2. Vindicated: that sliding bubble move. Easy enough to dodge, but the damage range is quite a bit more than what meets the eye. I'm in the air thinking, I'm far enough to dodge this, and the next thing I know, I'm pulled into it and taking lots of damage.


SAKURA


1. Same complaint as ken: She can stay in the air too long.

2. spin kick (not the special/super move) seems to stick to you/ suck you in. Does quite a bit of damage.

3. Shoyru special: does quite a lot of damage: But I feel ok with it as long as ken gets the same amount of damage for his move.

I hear people saying that her specials follow and hard to avoid. I feel that they are easy enough to avoid, but maybe this needs to be looked at as well.


CHUNLI
Quote:
Lightning Kick : Remove pass thru from that... seriously, i've seen people do this just to avoid projectiles, its really not supposed to be used for that.

Her 3x jump is a problem to me, but many said it was her playstyle and i do agree... so i'd say remove the pass thru of everymove she does... she can already easily go to the opponent via her 3x jump, so why giving her others way to get there to begin with. to be honest i'm stuck here with her... shes abusive, too much and i dont know how to tone her down. so if anybody got ideas...

1. As a chun user, I'm probably biased, but her moves aren't that hard to avoid. Especially her lighting kick. If this move can be blocked by a projectile (I think beams block this already?) then she will be pretty crippled in terms of specials. So keep her specials as is, reduce the damage they deal.

I'm fine with the way she is though.


BISON

Quote:
Knee Press : That thing needs to slow down a bit, its way too fast right now and it enables him to go thru the screen at great speed, speed that he shouldn'T be having to begin with. he can also teleport, so why not get his speed down and let the teleport do its job instead !

Shin Psycho Crusher : That one needs to be fixed, it gets people even if they are high up in the air. and its range above and under akuma are way too big. it needs it range tone down.

Psycho Field : Like the crush super, this needs to be toned down, right now it has a lot more reach like it reaches a must as wolverine fatal claw yet it is smaller in size, thats shouldn'T be. psycho field is a close range super, not a mid/long range super.
+1

CYCLOPS


Best character ever. Ryu should be about as balanced as he is. No complains here.

SPIDERMAN

Quote:
Maximum spider bug : As always this needs to be fixed, really we need to get a team to find what makes it bug actually.
I like the way this special is right now. Goes to one corner and stays there. I wouldn't mind if it reverted to its normal self either. Easy enough to block with a projectile.

Web-Sting: This move has a very strange angle. Could improve the range and angle because it missed most of the time.


Otherwise,


Like cyclops, pretty balanced. No complains with the Spider kick here.



JUGGERNAUGHT


He has enough armor. Make his head crush have lesser range. It is seriously hard to jump over it.

Give him a(nother) projectile special + move so that people aren't tempted to repeatedly use the high punch and lock you in the air: Infact, slow his high punch so that we can get out of this lock. Or just make "Earthquake" compete with the hadoken by increasing it's vertical range and speed.

SENTINEL

Kicks do a lot of damage - reduce this. Slow down the mouth cannon. Otherwise he is fine.


- OS

Last edited by OrangeSun; 02-22-2011 at 07:19 PM. Reason: Orange text is too hard to read
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Old 02-22-2011, 11:02 PM   #6
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Default Re: Balancing Mega Brain Storming

Ken - Lose Range on his ShinRyuKen
Spiderman - Needs to be able to get Level's quicker. Plus LP in air does nothing at all..
Sentinel - Stasis Field, stays in place and has a LITTLE vacuum
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Old 02-22-2011, 11:53 PM   #7
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Default Re: Balancing Mega Brain Storming

Shotos - they are fine, if anything they have too much moves compared to everyone else that why their to most used characters. Ryu still has that glitch were the hadouken comes from the side of the screen. RYu is powerful, and he has moves to cover everything, close, distance, air

Chunli- taking anything from her would just cripple her. only advantage she has of using her is her evasion. her specials are easy enough to avoid unless your playing a smart user who special were your going to be, she has a rising kick special which pretty much doesnt nothing. and when she gets hit, it takes alot of damage of her

Iron man- hes probably the most hardest in terms of balancing. But after the update, hes more useful as a charater now than he was before. But his flight still needs fixing

Cyclops - probably the most balanced character

Juggernaut - maybe his earthquake needs to be a bit bigger, help him match projectiles better

Sakura - apart from the p3/4 following thing, i dont see a problem with her
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Old 02-23-2011, 03:52 AM   #8
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Default Re: Balancing Mega Brain Storming

OrangeSun : Sentinel mouth beam is already the slowest it can be, slow it down again and the move becomes totally useless !

as for chunli lightning kick, it passes thru everything meaning that once she does it, nothing can stop her except a super ! as such i've seen lots of chunli users using that to actually avoid many of the hits, like i was hitting them much, then all they did was hit repeatedly one button kicking my ass because at that point she just ignored all my attacks, then they proceeded in super jumping and when i threw a super, they just did it again and it kinda passed thru her. though that might have been lag giving me hallucination.

all in all, her lightning kicks shouldn't passes thru... because they shouldn't be able to use it to avoid attacks.
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Old 02-23-2011, 08:47 AM   #9
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Default Re: Balancing Mega Brain Storming

if we talking about a move of chun-il that guyz over use it would have to be the spin kick like god damm and to stop the special you can also use the ground sweep wit cyclops
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Old 02-23-2011, 09:08 AM   #10
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Default Re: Balancing Mega Brain Storming

Quote:
Originally Posted by flamesz View Post
AKUMA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujWtL17WHVQ
i would like for one to say personal base of that video i would like akuma to have a long range special and i would like to see it unvini the one were he throw many hokens at you in a blast froum
Talking about this?
That would be awesome.
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Old 02-23-2011, 12:07 PM   #11
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Thumbs up Re: Balancing Mega Brain Storming

i would really like to see sakura hadokens smaller.
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Old 02-23-2011, 12:35 PM   #12
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Default Re: Balancing Mega Brain Storming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan View Post
Talking about this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYqy4E_bwg0
That would be awesome.
the hadukens? or the air-combo lol
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Old 02-23-2011, 04:37 PM   #13
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Default Re: Balancing Mega Brain Storming

The hados obviously..
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Old 02-23-2011, 04:44 PM   #14
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Default Re: Balancing Mega Brain Storming

well i would like to see air-combos in the game, ty very much.
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Old 02-24-2011, 04:41 PM   #15
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Default Re: Balancing Mega Brain Storming

Only thing i think should be changed about chunli is make her how she used to be before the update... Not able to go through projectiles with her kicks and such, the triple kick is enough.. Then we'll see how many kids are 'pro' chunli users when they cant spam the spinning kicks and kick specials across the screen.. Shes the only character im concerned about i used to love using her now i don't because requires no skill..
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Old 02-24-2011, 05:44 PM   #16
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Default Re: Balancing Mega Brain Storming

I chun-li's spinning kick can go through Hadokens why not ken's or ryus?
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Old 02-25-2011, 05:28 PM   #17
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Default Re: Balancing Mega Brain Storming

According to SSJkarma's posts on character balancing, here are my thoughts:

Akuma - For VIP users, higher up the RD damage at (level 1) to make as equal as normal Akuma users at (level 3). Whether he's vindicated or non-vindicated. This is just my take on it! Otherwise everything else on him is okies.

Sakura - Her air special needs to stop following opponents when knocked up in the air. But that only happens when the other person performs it whether its on team 1 or 2. 2ndly, could it be possible for Sakura to do ashura warp backwards as well as frontwards (down + forward + k1+k2)? Other than that, she's fine.

Chun-li - she needs to be toned down by all her attacks & specials.
Cyclops - Optic blast big special needs to be performed in the air (like MSHVSSF or MvsC2). If he can do the small beam special in air, why not just give the big beam one too. Other than that, he's good. P.S. is there way to combine his attacks to make him less cheap with beam spam.

Spider-man - that maximum spider special needs to start following again. Otherwise thats just make spidey look a lil weaker from just using it to 1 corner.

Juggernaut - my personal #1 fav character. I agree that his armor at least 50% should go up. Lower his healing ability and give him more power. He sustains too much damage from opponents especially shotos. Also, lower his RD special at level 2 a bit for VIP users. Then im happy that he's fine after that.

Overall, everyone else is fine in my opinion.
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Old 02-25-2011, 05:39 PM   #18
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Default Re: Balancing Mega Brain Storming

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItachiForever View Post
i would really like to see sakura hadokens smaller.

No just less hadoukens...

And chun-li going through projectiles while kicking is so stupid.
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Old 02-25-2011, 05:39 PM   #19
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Default Re: Balancing Mega Brain Storming

Quote:
Originally Posted by -XP- View Post
According to SSJkarma's posts on character balancing, here are my thoughts:

Akuma - For VIP users, higher up the RD damage at (level 1) to make as equal as normal Akuma users at (level 3). Whether he's vindicated or non-vindicated. This is just my take on it! Otherwise everything else on him is okies.

HELL NO!, that means at level 2, Akuma can do 2 of thoose RD's and the game will be over. HELL NO!!!!


Sakura - Her air special needs to stop following opponents when knocked up in the air. But that only happens when the other person performs it whether its on team 1 or 2. 2ndly, could it be possible for Sakura to do ashura warp backwards as well as frontwards (down + forward + k1+k2)? Other than that, she's fine.

Chun-li - she needs to be toned down by all her attacks & specials.

Noooooo!!!!


Cyclops - Optic blast big special needs to be performed in the air (like MSHVSSF or MvsC2). If he can do the small beam special in air, why not just give the big beam one too. Other than that, he's good. P.S. is there way to combine his attacks to make him less cheap with beam spam.

He can in his VIP form.... (it's a level 2 move)


Spider-man - that maximum spider special needs to start following again. Otherwise thats just make spidey look a lil weaker from just using it to 1 corner.

Juggernaut - my personal #1 fav character. I agree that his armor at least 50% should go up. Lower his healing ability and give him more power. He sustains too much damage from opponents especially shotos. Also, lower his RD special at level 2 a bit for VIP users. Then im happy that he's fine after that.

50% up on amour, will make him nearly invincible. hell nooo!!!, yes his should have more amour, but not that much more.

Overall, everyone else is fine in my opinion.
Eh, Nah!
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Old 02-25-2011, 06:48 PM   #20
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Default Re: Balancing Mega Brain Storming

^im agreeing with Lux on that one

akuma has level 1,2 and 3rd
making level 1 rd as strong as level 3 crosses out the point of the level 1 rd. plus what would be the point of the level 3 rd

chun li toned down in all attacks and special is a big no

cyclops can already beam in the air

juggernauts armor up 50% and give him more power?

you clearly havnt thought about this. its not about powering up your fav char, its about balancing everyone
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Old 02-26-2011, 07:51 PM   #21
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Default Re: Balancing Mega Brain Storming

by the way... armor works in percentage...
when i said 50% i didn't say add him 50% i said put it him at 50% which absorbing half of every moves thrown at him, that would make him have some kind of super armor which he do needs, otherwise he passes most of his time getting kicked by kicks or punches and most of those attacks actually sends him in the air where he cannot answer back.

his attack strenght is fine, just like sentinel, they both have attack power great enboug to deal alot of damage without the need to worry about themselves... but the problem is that sentinel is too slow, mostly his sentinel force and juggernaught is too big to even be great. so on jug, a super armor like ability would make him great. i think he should be the only charcater strong enough to withstand supers and all...

right now i dont know the numbers or anything... but i suggest getting him more armor, to enable him some kind of super armor at all time. that would make him more viable in fights and tournaments.
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Old 02-27-2011, 12:41 AM   #22
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Default Re: Balancing Mega Brain Storming

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Originally Posted by (DH)Vengeance View Post
^im agreeing with Lux on that one

akuma has level 1,2 and 3rd
making level 1 rd as strong as level 3 crosses out the point of the level 1 rd. plus what would be the point of the level 3 rd

chun li toned down in all attacks and special is a big no

cyclops can already beam in the air

juggernauts armor up 50% and give him more power?

you clearly havnt thought about this. its not about powering up your fav char, its about balancing everyone
I disagree on that, Vengenance! you expect me to be wrong, when in fact! you dont know me at all, i know what im talking about, your the one thats wrong. Don't take me out to be the bad guy here, dude! this is not a debate.

Akuma - needs to be lowered on something yo, to make him as equal as other shotos.

Chun-li - spinning hurricane needs to stop suck-ins. She's need to be toned down.

Cyclops - I clearly said the "big Optic blast special might be good to perform in the air" like how in UNVIND you do small beam, Theres a difference between small beams & a large beam, Vengenance dude.

Juggernaut - I agree with SSJKarma, a super armor ability would definitely make him real good.

Aside of Lux's post, i think your wrong DH Vengenance, don't try and tell me that i dont know SFO, unlike you yo.! If you dont like it, im tell SSJKarma. nuff said!
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Old 02-27-2011, 12:36 PM   #23
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Default Re: Balancing Mega Brain Storming

see, now your trying to turn a discussion into an arguement. this have not to do with me knowing you or not.

when did i state you dont know anything about sfo? i said you havnt thought about it clearly because thats how it seem to me when i read your post.

i think you need to read what your wrote. you stated, "
Chun-li - she needs to be toned down by all her attacks & specials." hence you said all her attack and special". now your saying one of her special "spinning hurricane".

your want everything about her to be tone down, i replied with a big no.
simple as that

"big Optic blast special might be good to perform in the air" like how in UNVIND you do small beam, Theres a difference between small beams & a large beam, Vengenance dude." <- what you said.
i said cyclops already has a big optic blast special in the air, vip cyclops, .

im not going to go qouting everything you said. if you cant explain what you mean properly, then people will question what your write.
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Old 02-27-2011, 04:21 PM   #24
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Default Re: Balancing Mega Brain Storming

It is true that cyclops already has an air directionnal mega optic blast. it is a DWX(aka vindicated for marvel chars) move requiring 2 super levels.

as for chunlis power, i dont think she needs her power to be toned down, just that i think she was perfect until TMyApp gave her that many pass thru moves.

the RD levels are fine by me, i already think the level 1 RDs are already abusive as they are. so i dont think they should be played with.

When it comes to shotos i think they are much more balanced then one might think, of course i think ken has way too many supers and some of them are way too overpowered... but that said they are there and we're not gonna remove them. while most of the people play unvindicated anyway most of those moves are probably already dealt with in that way. i'd preffer that we deal with small details more then playing with big ones like toning down moves...
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