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Old 08-20-2012, 03:29 AM   #1
TitaniumFist
 
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Default RE: The Game

Lol. Okay, so blockattack closed the last thread, so we are officially off Shaprton and whether or not he (or anyone) is a racist.

So let's take some of your other points on politics that won't incite a flame war.

Quote:
That method of getting to people to sign up to vote is a way to get potential votes for the Democratic Party. That has been done for YEARS.
What is your point here? Every political party courts votes from the citizens of these United States. Who those citizens choose to vote for is up to them, but their right to vote should never be suppressed, as it is now in several states.

Quote:
Originally Posted by `The-Game`
African American's RARELY vote in elections seeing that the majority of the politicians are white and they feel they can't do anything for them.... The only time when a mass of them came out to vote was for Obama back in 08.

I'm not going to defend suppression, but you have to look it at this way. Millions of African Americans showed up at the polls and voted in 2008 elections for Obama because he was black. Not for the issues, not knowing if he was going to help them, but because he was black.

I mean if you think that isn't wrong to some degree, then your judgement is impaired to a slight degree.

I'm black and I like Obama. But that should not be a reason for someone to vote.
Bold statement, that. How many millions? Can you please cite your data? Or is this just an estimate pulled from thin air?

This link provides exit poll data showing African American voting in presidential elections going all the way back to 1980. Feel free to play with the neat slider on the left side.

What's my point here? The presidential candidates in every election but 2008 were all white.

Meaning the African American vote tends to lean Democratic, not black. Can we assume some voted because of what President (then Senator) Obama represented for their community? Yes. But I think we can also assume they were educated on the issues. (90% voted for Walter Mondale, and 90% voted for Al Gore - 95% voted for Barack Obama - that's a 5% difference from the highest percentages in the data linked above.)

Again, what are you basing your points on? Stating categorically that African Americans only turned out in 2008, and only for Barack Obama? Facts, please. I've already provided some as a counterpoint to this, but here's more:

Voter turnout data from 1988 - 2008

Notice the pattern, the steady climb in black voter turnout from 1996 - 2008. Where were the black candidates from 1996 - 2007?

More education, more registration means more votes from African American community. Who they choose to vote for is their business, but historically, we can see they vote heavily Democratic based on the issues that matter to them - not the color of the candidate's skin as you claim. The point you miss, but the data shows is this: the democratic candidate also happened to be black in 2008.

Blacks likely would have voted for the democratic candidate on issues if he was black, or white.

(Again, the data here shows a 5% change from the modern average.)

Final point, I don't know for a fact that millions voted for President Obama because he was black. Do you?

What I do know is cited above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by `The-Game`
And yes, voter suppression is an issue for the 2012 elections. But also is Voter fraud, in which parties will take in account fake/void ballots of people who had not voted in an election. That in itself has been done for years. You even have cases where people who have deceased for years voted in recent elections. That method of Voter fraud itself has been done for years as well.
This is false equivalency and, actually, absurd. I don't know where you're getting this from, but I hope it's not just talking points.

I know you've checked MSNBC off your list of news sources, so I have some links here on the myth of voter fraud for you:

Washington Post

The New York Times

Rolling Stone

And if you have some issue with any of those newspapers, or see them as liberal leaning, then go straight to the source many of them cite: The Brennan Center for Justice.

Quote:
Because voter fraud is essentially irrational, it is not surprising that no credible evidence suggests a voter fraud epidemic. There is no documented wave or trend of individuals voting multiple times, voting as someone else, or voting despite knowing that they are ineligible. Indeed, evidence from the microscopically scrutinized 2004 gubernatorial election in Washington State actually reveals just the opposite: though voter fraud does happen, it happens approximately 0.0009% of the time. The similarly closely-analyzed 2004 election in Ohio revealed a voter fraud rate of 0.00004%. National Weather Service data shows that Americans are struck and killed by lightning about as often.
The voter fraud problem is exaggerated, at best. It is willful ignorance to claim otherwise. Look at that percentage again. The same Brennan Center estimates five million Americans will be affected by the voter ID/suppression laws:

Quote:
State governments across the country enacted an array of new laws that could make it significantly harder for as many as 5 million eligible Americans to vote. Some states require voters to show government-issued photo identification, often of a type that as many as one in ten voters do not have. Other states have cut back on early voting, a hugely popular innovation used by millions of Americans. Still others made it much more difficult for citizens to register to vote, a prerequisite for voting.
Now the US Cencus population clock says we're currently @ 314,196,587. I suck at math, but 5 million divded by the current US population, and multiplied by 100 gives us 1.5 percent.

1.5 percent...oh, hang on. I'm doing it wrong. I'd have to get the percentage of the active voting population. Let's try this again.

Let's use CNN's lowest estimate: 126.5 million. Doing the same math again, that brings the potential total of lost votes due to voter ID to 3.9 percent of the voting public (estimated from the last presidential election's numbers).

(Although adding up Wikipedia's numbers for both President Obama and Senator McCain comes to 129,391,711)

Voter ID's potential impact: 3.9% (but this is my math, and I believe Brennan's data is based on governor races, mind you.)

More from Brennan Center:

Here.

And here.

Aaaaaaand here.

Pick one and read it. You're welcome.

Oh, and I know how you feel about MSNBC, but can you honestly tell me what the republican in this video says makes sense?


Voter ID laws = a win for presidential candidate Mitt Romney?

I thought the laws were for combating fraud?
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:08 PM   #2
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Default Re: RE: The Game

there are three things one shouldn't speak of if he is afraid to end up win a flaming war...

Politics, Religions and Racism...
i'd add womens to the list but its not always ending up in flame wars... often ends up going away with the furnitures though.
anyway i will simply recommend, not gonna close it, but i will recommend for this to saty civilised.
you guys walking on a short fuse thread and the bomb is really not far away.
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:59 PM   #3
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Default Re: RE: The Game

Republicans are known to use southern strategy.

It's been well stated, they can't say the N word anymore.
So they use words like "socialist", "unamerican".


Not saying all republicans are racist, but they definitely utilize the fears of white americans down south.

Bump: The game is wrong, blacks vote overwhelmingly democratic for like the past fifty years after they passed the civil rights act or some law like that.


All the southern democrats at the time[or the solid south] flipped relatively fast to the republic party.



Edit. I didn't read Tfist post before I made mine, read it after.
I posted my comment towards the game because as I was scrolling down I said African American in caps, and it just happened to catch my eye, so I read his quote and decided to respond.

Last edited by silver-ken; 08-21-2012 at 11:07 PM.
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Old 08-22-2012, 06:59 PM   #4
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Default Re: RE: The Game

I believe we can all agree that when it comes down to the two monsters, Obama is obviously the lesser evil.
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:44 AM   #5
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Default Re: RE: The Game

Quote:
Originally Posted by azncat View Post
I believe we can all agree that when it comes down to the two monsters, Obama is obviously the lesser evil.
http://nymag.com/news/politics/liber...chait-2011-11/

Just for you, mang. I must have missed this piece last year. Good read this year, all the same.

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/09...residency.html

Read that, too.

I'm curious, what makes you call President Obama the lesser of two evils/monsters? Just wondering - it's a well worn phrase, but "monster" struck me as ... odd.
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Last edited by TitaniumFist; 09-08-2012 at 01:53 AM.
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Old 09-09-2012, 05:35 AM   #6
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Default Re: RE: The Game

Well I was going to have a rebuttal... Then literally a slew of things happened to me...

I'm going to respond to this sooner or later.
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