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Old 09-05-2007, 06:33 PM   #1
Nyah!
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

Well i was playing street fighter online as usual yesterday and it struck me how strong all the vindicated characters are. Then i played Street fighter 3rd strike, and different games they might be, i realised one of the main fundamental flaws i see with SFO and why the majority chooses shotos over DWX characters. Also, since the vindication i have realised that everyone flock to them; why? Even in the best fighting or flawed fighting games everyone has their own favourite characters that are vcastly different, but yet nowadays it is quite boring to fight the shotos again and again, non? The very few that use DWX are either the devoted or the orignal, and i praise them greatly for that. The only reason i see why people prefer to use shotos is nothing about hadoukens, or tornado kicks or even RDs.

It is that they have no apparent weakness in the charcter. Strength wise, the vindicated are very strong. They have reasonable speed. They have close ranged attacks + specials (i.e. tornado kicks, uppercut special), they have long ranged attacks that can reach trhe other side of the screen in less than a second (lightning kick, shinkuu hadouken, ken’s new moves, pink ball akuma super), their defence is mediocre, their physical attacks hurt just as much, and their projectiles are devastatingly hard to avoid. Their body mass quite small so as to make them harder to hit.

Therefore, the more i think about it, the more disadvatnaged the other characters are. That’s why i’ve decided to start this thread. If anyone here could come up with a feasible argument as to why any of the vindcated character (whether it be ryu, akuma or ken) have a weakness that is apparent only in that character or a few weaknesses that compennsate to create a realistic character, then hopefully it will help TmyApp in how he makes his characters. Whilst it may be too much to ask for a character tweak on the existing vindicated characters, i just hope that should noone be able to come up with some form of weakness to make them just as playable characters as the DWX charcaters, then let’s hope the next vindicated charcaters are slightly ‘weaker’. In the hope that everyone will join me, i think we shoudl present the weakness of the other characters to compare to that of Akuma and Ryu and Ken, and prove to those who think that the vindication is nothing but almighty greatness in terms of power and strengfh, that in fact there is actually a fundamental flaw in all of this vindication, because after all, and i apologise if i offend the creator for this, but shouldnt every character have a flaw of some kind to make sure they’re not totally perfect in that they are all equally balanced?

Also i think it’ll help myself and others in understanding the characters a lil’ bit better.

So let’s Start shall we? I’ll edit each character with their weakness as soon as people start suggesting some.

Ignore me if i seem to be blabbering rubbish

Thanks for reading!

Ken

Ryu

Akuma

Wolverine - lack of projectile moves

Cyclops - slow recovery from beams

Sakura

Bison

Sentinel - big body leading to bigger target and slower recovery from melee attacks?

Juggernaut

Chun-Li

Spiderman - prolonged time in the air a victim of rds

Onslaught

I’ll start

Heh Onslaught cant block?

Debatable weaknesses
kicks dont go through projectiles - cyclops
long distance projectiles - ken



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Old 09-05-2007, 06:36 PM   #2
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

Cyclops Kick can't even go trough Projectile and Shotos have Ashura Warp aight...
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Old 09-05-2007, 06:37 PM   #3
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

The Shotoken's do have weaknesses in this game and other games ie: Spiderman can own Ryu most times but Ken can give a better fight because hes anti air char(not mentioning Sakura as shes not really a Shoto, only a wanna be theres only 3 Shotos).

Also the Shotos have there weaknesses against each other.

Ken beats Akuma, Ryu beats Ken , Akuma beats Ryu, the balance of the Shotos was born on SFO.



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Old 09-05-2007, 06:38 PM   #4
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

Ta Omny xP

No need to say the shoto's advantage though, because i am merely looking for weaknesses in every charcater and it's fair to say that every character should have a few.

Fallen angel, you dont seem to have stated an example of a weakness though, you have merely stated that should they be fighting against each other, there would be equal chance each would win due to the players skill, not the characaters.

EDIT: though it is arguable that all the kicks (i.e. tornado kicks) dont go through projectiles as well? therefore (sorry omny o.O) i might leave that in the to be considered column. Is that ok?



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Old 09-05-2007, 06:43 PM   #5
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] (Nyah! @ Sep. 05 2007,18:38)]Fallen angel, you dont seem to have stated an example of a weakness though, you have merely stated that should they be fighting against each other, there would be equal chance each would win due to the players skill, not the characaters.
ok hows this, Spidermans weakness is mainly shin akuma lv1 rd, Wolverine's weakness is ashura warp, Kens weakness is long distance projectiles, Sentinel's weakness is melee attacks just to name a few.



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Old 09-05-2007, 06:45 PM   #6
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

^aighttt...

anyway

Cyclops can't resist versus hadoken spam with optic ball (hp) even the low one..hadoken spam beats the hell out of it..

Wolvie should be able to drill claw atleast 2 times in the air..
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Old 09-05-2007, 06:45 PM   #7
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

The original DWX Characters were perfect. Same look. Added attacks, new taunts/rage factor. Voices from the show, etc. There wasn't as much complaining.

Sentinel, is somewhat of a cross between DWX and Vindicated. It/His update was ok.

Personally, I believe instead of making the characters vindicated individually (before everyone was vindicated), maybe the grey characters could be completed, and then make the existing characters vindicated all at once. This way there wouldn't be such a division with using normal characters against vindicated characters (not a problem if you chose not to use Vindicator.)

I plainly don't like Vindicator at all, shiny look, a million moves added, and more moves to spam (in some cases) and a easy way out of things without a real challenge. All these updates are for the new people coming on SFO, they like these updates very much, most of them aren't even on the forum, so we can't see their side. Too bad.
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Old 09-05-2007, 06:47 PM   #8
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] ]Kens weakness is long distance projectiles
Ugh that's the thing, Ken has every ability due to his vindcation to fight back because of his hadoukens and his shinkuu hadouken like special he has now. So i'm afraid that in itself is not an evident weakness.

Unfortunately it's getting late.. sorry all i'll update everything later o.O



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Old 09-05-2007, 06:48 PM   #9
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] (XxOmny_SakuraxX @ Sep. 05 2007,18:45)]^aighttt...

anyway

Cyclops can't resist versus hadoken spam with optic ball (hp) even the low one..hadoken spam beats the hell out of it..

Wolvie should be able to drill claw atleast 2 times in the air..
well you are looking at it as in the chars actual weakness in moves etc, am looking at it from what the char is weak against within SFO as a balanced game or try to balance it.
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Old 09-05-2007, 06:51 PM   #10
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

Yeah I Don't like vindicator neither..Ive been saying it from when it started..that's why I play with no vindicator..Because I don't know..I don't like how the vindi characters are over power I don't even remember the glitches there was before vindi came..maybe Air Following...and..backrows thats all not more..of what I remember now there is so much

glitch that when you win versus a vindicated ken your like WOW I made it without dying by the *Ultimate powerfull Shoryureppa* that kills you in 1 shot by not even touching you..and when I play non vindi the only glitch I see is The backrows now..and from the 3 lasts updates I don't know if people saw it but..you can even see yourself doing

backrows sometimes which is suppose to occur only on the oppenent screen because of the lag but now all I see when I do a Wolvie match is Dill Claw X comming out from the feet of wolvie...
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Old 09-05-2007, 06:52 PM   #11
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

Everyone has a flaw really. The physical attacks in this game isn't even right. Example? Lp is supposed to be a weak attack. But, since sfo is so fast, this attack goes fast. And it stops most melee attacks, the tornado kick, the hurricane kick, cyclone kick, and harder punch, or a normal kick.
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Old 09-06-2007, 02:53 PM   #12
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

Well vindication caused the tier system...such as..

Wolverine > Ryu > chunli

To be somewhat now a whole new ball game...

That tier system kept a certian balance SFO Gamers enjoyed...

At one time Ryu use to get creamed by Spiderman...now hell a ryu user can beat a spiderman user senseless..

The only weakness with vindicated characters is this....

"speed for power."

however that weakness is out the window when your fighting someone with a monster pc...basically providing for them....no weakness

with the ability to projectile spam you into another area code..



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Old 09-06-2007, 03:37 PM   #13
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

yeah the one flaw that annoys me about vindicated akuma.. is that when you fighting as wolvie, you can't stop the big energy ball thing he does on the ground.. like even if you drill claw you can't stop it.. thats the thing that annoys me the most.. but the shotos are definitely more powerful than the DWX crew.
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Old 09-06-2007, 09:56 PM   #14
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

well i dont know when i use it there a little chance for the other guy so yeah i think u right
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Old 09-07-2007, 08:33 AM   #15
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] (gta2gta2gta2 @ Sep. 06 2007,19:53)]Well vindication caused the tier system...such as..

Wolverine > Ryu > chunli

To be somewhat now a whole new ball game...

That tier system kept a certian balance SFO Gamers enjoyed...

At one time Ryu use to get creamed by Spiderman...now hell a ryu user can beat a spiderman user senseless..

The only weakness with vindicated characters is this....

"speed for power."

however that weakness is out the window when your fighting someone with a monster pc...basically providing for them....no weakness

with the ability to projectile spam you into another area code..
Alas, the very thing i've been trying to reinforce on people. Thank you for everyone's input people!
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Old 09-07-2007, 10:36 AM   #16
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

You want to know the GV problems?

Ryu: His Shinkuu Hadouken hits outside of the box. His strobe light Hadoukens are too long, hit outside of the box and hit you even if you're BEHIND the other person. He now teleports whenever the flip he moves.

Akuma: His ball super, whatever the hell it's called, hits outside of the box. His Hadoukens are even worse than Ryu's

Ken: He now hits you with a Shoryueppa even while he's teleporting. He doesn't touch you and you take damage.

All the DWX characters? Wolvie's Berserker Barrage X blows, his regular Berserker takes too much health and too much time, he still takes level when he Drill Claws, he can't do anything when he Drill Claws and he can't stop ANY of Ryu's Shinkuu Hadoukens now, so he's forced to dodge or block. And dodging can sometimes fail because he hits outside of the box, and certain Wolvie users (like myself) tend to Drill Claw right over the super (right about where the out-of-the-box-hits happen). Same for Akuma's ball super.

Cyclops is fine but needs to be able to go through projectiles when he does the Cyclone Kick when he's VIP'd.

Juggy is fine.

As for the non DWX/Vindi characters, Chun-li takes too much damage when she blocks, Spiderman has too much of an advantage over Wolverine unless he uses his Fatal Claw, Bison's teleport sucks, god, I can't even get into it.

What we need is less freaking strobe lights and more fixing problems without making characters so god damned powerful.
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:02 AM   #17
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

SPIRIT-WOLF: ... or so YOU think

time for me to add my 2 cents

... i think everyone has a bit of a "backwards view" on the whole Vindication situation ... so, let me throw a few ideas ya'all can discuss further:

every since XvsSF 0.2a, PX has been all about either the "char is too strong" problems, or "catch up to Ryu" game

... 1st release of Logan, what did everyone say ?? "he sucks" ... why ?? because he "owned Ryu" (and in the world of SFO, there is no bigger insult ) ... so, Logan was toned down ... and since that day, he too has been playing the "catch up to Ryu" quest

in fact, let's take a look at the awesome unstoppable power that is Ryu: (arguably) the best projectiles ... 45 degree down air-hadouken ... perfection that is the Shinku Hadouken beam ... both a fast uppercut, and an uppercut-hyper ... then finish that off with a 45 degree hyper, and a level 3 RD

... and her'es the shocker: Ryu had ALL that ... way before the Vindicator was ever added to SFO

but of course the other chars had their purpose as well ... their job was to stand in one stop ... punch/kick the air ... as Ryu would "rip them a new one" ... and the person who dared to use a non-shoto char would be labeled a "n00b"

... at the end of the day ... when you were bored, you would pick the "other characters": Logan, Li, Bison, Parker, Sakura ... (all which were voted in btw ... so i can't be blamed for their addition ... unlike Sent, Scott, Juggs and Iron-whatchamacallit ... you can blame me for those ) ... but when you played "for keeps" (whatever that means) ... you picked Ryu ... there was no doubt about it ...

... yeah we had other Shoto's ... like Akuma ... but there wasn't much point in using him considering you had Ryu-Gouki ... (it's as though Ryu looked ad Akuma's moves and said: "i'll take those !!" ... leaving Akuma with ... ummm ... nothing ?? ... and of course you can "blame" Capcom for that ... since they are the ones who invented the idea of Evil Ryu in the first place )

and Ken ?? well ... without a shunku-haduken (and/or other "Ryu-counter-moves" ) he really didn't have much of a chance against Ryu's onslaught ...

... and of course i'm just scratching the surface here ... and as mentioned, all this insanity existed BEFORE the "Vindication Era"

...

on another point: i personally think that a lot of the times when players say "they hate Vindication" they really mean to say "they hate change" ... because that's what' it's all about

... the "modification" of existing characters was an idea that dated back to 2k2 ... and has started with DWX last year ... (both Logan and Scott got "redefined" in order to "catch up" to Ryu) ... because (in my opinion) there are few things worse than hundreds upon hundreds of hours spent on a character that NO ONE uses ... (seriously, does anyone remember Logan/Scott b4 DWX ?? ... they were both utterly utterly USELESS ... except of course, when it came to standing in a spot as Ryu killed them )

... and if you also recall, 2k6 was the "year of effects" (quite a few of them were added to SFO to make the game look more "flashy" and "up to date" ... because those circa 1996 sprites are not going to look any better on their own ) ... the final change that was going to be added was the "glow" (which i unfortunately only had time to code into the engine after DWX ... and is the reason of why Scott's beams don't look as good as everyone else's who got "modified" after him) ... and right at that time, is when the "game over" was given to the numerous (and "pathetic" ) hacking/cheating attempts that went on at SFO ... (aka: GV was added)

so, it was a perfect match ... GV was going to be implemented one way or other ... (and so were the new/flashy shoto moves) ... so, why not give the players an incentive to use GV in the first place ... by making those new "modifications" only available to those who were willing to prove that they were playing true and fair in the world of SFO ?? ... and so, that's how we ended up where we are now

...

back to the topic of "looking at things backwards" ... is Ryu "overpowered" ?? probably ... but in SFO he is the "standard" ... and all chars are compared to him

is Akuma/Ken overpowered ?? ... i would have to say "no" ... but thanks to the latest "modifications", they can finally hold their own against Ryu

... so where does that leave the reset of the chars ?? ... well ... they are in the "queue" to be modified as well ... it's the only way they'll ever have hope of going up against the Shoto's (which are finally ... more or less ... "complete" at this point )

... i also think that seeing the newly modified chars as "perfect" or "flawless" is a bit "backwards" as well ... instead, what they do have is a great selection of moves ... while the rest of the chars, are "lagging behind" ... (and as mentioned, are in need of "modifying" in order to "catch up" )

the best/only example i can think of at the moment was when Akuma was first Vindicated ... (aside from his "RD's happened too fast" and "move X doing too much damage" bugs) ... to me, it was amazing to see him go up against Ryu ... 1 to 1

... each of the shoto's had their own array of moves, and each was different (and still are of course) ... and the first time in a while, the Akuma players no longer had to use the same useless moves over and over again and "hope" that Ryu would slip-up ... instead, they had a choice ... each being potentially devastating to Ryu ... and while Akuma still didn't have a shinku-haduken look-alike move ... for the first time, he did not need it (which says quite a bit)

and wouldn't it be great if that was the case with all of the chars as well ?? ... that of course does not mean that Chun Li should have a "45 degree lightning hyper" ... but it would be nice if she had at least one more move to pass through the shoto-projectiles ... even if those types of changes would not make her a "powerhouse", it would at least give her a shred of a fighting chance ...

... i'm done ranting ... carry on
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:34 AM   #18
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] (TMyApp @ Sep. 07 2007,11:02)]yeah we had other Shoto's ... like Akuma ... but there wasn't much point in using him considering you had Ryu-Gouki ... (it's as though Ryu looked ad Akuma's moves and said: "i'll take those !!" ... leaving Akuma with ... ummm ... nothing ?? ... and of course you can "blame" Capcom for that ... since they are the ones who invented the idea of Evil Ryu in the first place
I liked this part best!!! Akuma had unique moves about him that Evil Ryu didnt get ie: jump into a dive kick into a combo was exclusive to akuma and very effective but its used very diferent in sfo, they use it to avoid the difficult down up left or right super jump.also you say evil ryu in sfo went 'akuma ill have all those moves' and leaves akuma with nothin well why not give him his messatsu hadoken which all akuma users have been waiting on since ryu stole all akuma's moves.

misogi was exclusive to akuma also, so was the tenmu normal hadoken at first as well, thou through the generations of games ryu just started to rip off al of akumas moves.

Akuma will always be the master of the fist even if the ryu fan boys dont wanna accept it, as for shin akuma, in the real street fighter universe, he can own ryu or evil ryu or any shoto with the drop of a hat, far surpiror in power especially his shin akuma form with orochi blood curse from capcom vs snk 2 rugal.



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Old 09-07-2007, 03:44 PM   #19
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

i am seeing ur point. but i am out of the two. i am a sakura user. she is a half shoto. plus i love using her. but still most dwx people are cheap. it depends how they use them though. but i am a half shoto sakura lover.
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Old 09-07-2007, 03:57 PM   #20
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] (SoulEdge3 @ Sep. 07 2007,15:44)]i am seeing ur point. but i am out of the two. i am a sakura user. she is a half shoto. plus i love using her. but still most dwx people are cheap. it depends how they use them though. but i am a half shoto sakura lover.
Theres only 3 Shotos... Ryu , Ken and Akuma, Sakura is mearly a wannabe, copying Ryu, she does not know Shotokan Karate, niether has she been teached by a Shotokan Karate expert ie: Gouken.

To some extent she mimic simliar attacks but she is no where near shotokan standard.



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Old 09-09-2007, 07:54 AM   #21
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

Wow, firstly I am surprised to find that TMyApp posted in a topic such as this, but I’m always up for a civilised debate. Time to blow this wide open

I have fully (extensively) read all the points you have put forward there TMyApp, and I sympathise wholly your point of view, but once again, I find it illogical or sometimes silly if it was to carry on in this manner.

Whilst ryu is always labelled the ‘strongest’ of all the characters, do you not find that even before this whole vindication era, that there are people who used the other characters? And the fact that ryu was considered always as the ‘beginner’ character (hence, of course, why despite the many updates, ryu was always available to the, shall we say, newbies, makes it logical to make him the strongest and in due time, people will find that it is quite boring or ‘unskilled’ to use that character to move on to better ones?

Pre vindication era, that was the change we saw amongst our players, but now, you say that we cannot adapt to the change that is happening to SFO, but I can also argue that people cannot change in accordance to the game, so therefore they have to wait for an update in order for them to be able to ‘improve’ their skill, when in fact the players have not changed, but the characters and the game changed for them. Therefore, would you say that the players cannot change when they are not used to vindication, or that they cant change to begin with because they cannot overcome that obstacle.

Also, there is also the problem that ryu is not invincible. I have seen, played, lost to so many players who have not used ryu; in fact I have lost to every single player before, and they seemed, through practice and various attempts to thwart the power and see the weaknesses in ryu. However, now that is not the case, because every other vindicated character is so easily managed and used that eventually, they do not seem to have a weakness; if anything, now less people will use the other characters, because bfore, they had only an ‘overpowered’ ryu to overcome, now they have an overpowered akuma and ken to overcome, and this might simply have become too much of a burden for those who used to play as different characters and so simply decided to ‘join’ in with the vindication.

Also, you say they are yes, slightluy overpowered characters are a sign and in given time the others will be able to match its power, but isn’t that an ever continuing cycle and more work imposed upon th creator, who is yourself? Every day I am sure you are bombarded with new character requests and this and that, would it not become easier if the original chacrcters are left as they are so that people are able to adapt to the different fighting ways?

Also, you say that all the characters get progressively stronger, and if we were to pretend that my previous point that it is an ever continuing cycle, then every chacrcter wuill eventually become terminators, as there is only a certain amount of the characters can become stronger by. Then there will be the end, and what will happen then? More stronger characters? A new mode to thwart the strongest characters? It would be a nightmare to think that every charcter has every special and every hyper move at their disposal, because everyone will be the same.

Furthermore, you say that it is an amazing feat that finally akuma can finally manage to be on ‘par’ with ryu and fight in an equal style with it, but would it not be equally amazing, or even more breathtaking, to see a chacrcter who is normally treated as the underdog to rise over the overpowered due to the players skill and defeat the almighty ryu? The point of vindication is so that each character can hold thei own against ryu, but isn’t that the players responsibility rather than that of the characters or even your burden to carry?

I have too finished my argument, and look forward to a response.

Once again, I do not mean any offence or insults in anyway, even if the writing above seems a little biased and rude.



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Old 09-09-2007, 08:37 AM   #22
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

So, Tmy..you're adding on these moves just so everyone can be on par with Ryu..lol. You're taking away what the characters really are. Ken isn't supposed to have any Shinku Hadoken, And Akuma having that orb thing. All these added moves are worthless, and takes away the challenge of fighting a character that may seem better than the character you're using. That's why people play..for a challenge, using different characters with different style. Hate Vindicator = Hate Change? Probably, but not like the other changes I've enjoyed before it.



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Old 09-12-2007, 10:33 PM   #23
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

Nyah!: hmm ... i'm not quite sure if i agree with the view of Ryu being a "beginner character" ... most "seasoned" players i know always picked Ryu if they wanted to "play their best" ... (but for some reason, none of them are around in this thread to back me up )

i'm also not quite sure if the majority of SFO players are "not able to change/adapt" to the new SFO era of "modified characters" ... a good example of this is the number of Akuma users (which has basically "exploded" since Akuma was modified ... compared to the old SFO ... when both Ryu and Akuma were still semi-old-school)

... but as for players "going with the flow" and switching to a modified/vindicated character ?? yep ... i can definitely see that happening ... (why use Chun Li ... when you have one of the modified shoto's as your option ?? ) ... new game changes/moves are of course influencing this as well ... (1st week Ken was vindicated ... he was the only character that was used ... but since then ... that number has gone down ... )

in fact ... i always found that simply looking at the top-scores is a good indication of which characters are most "popular" ... just look at Iron-whatchamacallit ... hundreds of hours that were spent on his implementation ?? were all well worth it ... ...

(NOTICE: please make sure your "sarcasm detector" is switched to the "on" position if the above did not make sense)

... seriously though ... he probably needs tweaking more than Li ... (but that's "normal" when it comes to SFO and new char releases ... right ?? )

and as for the "never ending quest of tweaking the characters" ?? yeah ... we had that one since day one as well ... (but i think few remember Ryu 0.1a ... and the immense number of times he was "tweaked" ... and of course the same can be said about every other XvsSF character in SFO)

... when all said and done however ... i have yet to see a character "rise" to the level of Ryu ... the closest we ever get to such a point, is character X doing "too much damage" ... at which point the forum gets flooding with numerous bitching remarks ... and the char in question is tweaked (within a week or three) to become semi-useless against Ryu once more

then again ... my personal views of the events may not reflect everyone else's ... (since few have been here when PX started in 2001 ... and even fewer have experienced the changes of over 300 game updates and releases since that time)

DetectiveUnknown: then the un-vind mode is your friend

... (i'm done ranting for tonight ... but i'm sure there are quite a few other players who are more than willing to add their 2 cents )
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Old 09-13-2007, 06:16 AM   #24
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

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Quote[/b] (TMyApp @ Sep. 12 2007,22:33)]Nyah!: hmm ... i'm not quite sure if i agree with the view of Ryu being a "beginner character" ... most "seasoned" players i know always picked Ryu if they wanted to "play their best" ... (but for some reason, none of them are around in this thread to back me up )

i'm also not quite sure if the majority of SFO players are "not able to change/adapt" to the new SFO era of "modified characters" ... a good example of this is the number of Akuma users (which has basically "exploded" since Akuma was modified ... compared to the old SFO ... when both Ryu and Akuma were still semi-old-school)

... but as for players "going with the flow" and switching to a modified/vindicated character ?? yep ... i can definitely see that happening ... (why use Chun Li ... when you have one of the modified shoto's as your option ?? ) ... new game changes/moves are of course influencing this as well ... (1st week Ken was vindicated ... he was the only character that was used ... but since then ... that number has gone down ... )
I agree. After taking out the sudden spike in interest in Vindicated Ken and new character Ironman, Ryu and Akuma still dominate ppl's choices (getting picked 75 - 85% of the time) when they are not experimenting and are gunning for the win.

Moving onto the topic at hand, I would say Nyah!'s pretty astute in his obhservations pointing out the considerable edge that vindication has given to the Shotos.

My only solution? If you can't beat them, join them. Use a Shoto to beat a Shoto.

Since a typical Shoto-vs-Shoto fight involves heavy hadokening and furious and quick levelling up rather than any particular hand-to-hand combat, the emphasis would then shift accordingly towards movement, timing and anticipation, which is still a fair test of skills.



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Old 09-13-2007, 08:11 AM   #25
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Default Re: I've been Thinking

I think we cannot have a full and complete picture of a characters power level until all characters have been updated and vindicated/dwx'd.

It's all very well saying Ryu owns all,but then naturally he would do if characters like Spiderman have yet to be upgraded.Also i fail to see why dwx'd characters are being mentioned in the same breath as the original characters as DWX is just a whisker off what Vindication is for the SF characters.

But back to my main point,we can't really give a generlised overview on strengths and weakness's until the whole process is completed- it's like reviewing a book you've only half read



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